#Jon and Arya's love for each other is really such an integral part of their characters 😭

[fromtheseventhhell]

But what if Robb won't pay their price? She wasn't a famous knight, and kings were supposed to put the realm before their sisters. And her lady mother, what would she say? Would she still want her back, after all the things she'd done?

--Arya IV, A Storm of Swords

Bring her home, Mance. I saved your son from Melisandre, and now I am about to save four thousand of your free folk. You owe me this one little girl.

--Jon XI, A Dance with Dragons

[hewantshisbrideback]

those people are sending you hate because they hate arya being appreciated. They think is they inforce the idea that arya is ugly, then that would somehow make her unworthy of romantic love. which is complete and utter bullshit only her bullies say that everyone else is always telling arya that she is pretty. Anyone with a braincell could see that. And anyone who has read the books knows that jon loves her more than anything in the world. And arya loves him. Their love for each other is an integral part of who they are. and antis are super bothered by the absolute canonicity of jonrya. They just want to hurt and discourage content creators for arya. I just hope that you won't let them get to you. Because the jonrya community appreciates you very much ❤️

Don't worry, anon, I'm not going to be scared off by antis, lol! I'll turn anon off if it ever becomes super exasperating, but at the end of the day, ASOIAF is just a work of fiction, and it, and how others feel about it, doesn't affect my personal well-being. But I super appreciate all the support that everyone's shown me, and I adore the Jonrya community with all my heart!

I'm not planning to disappear, if anyone's worried. No Honor Among Thieves will definitely get at the very least two more chapters, and maybe more, and I don't see myself ever not making Needleheart and ASOIAF edits. Plus, I still have a few metas to post that I've put too much work into to ditch now!

Anyway, I really prefer making content and reading meta, and that will always primarily be this account's purpose, and I hope it can be a source for anyone who is looking for that kind of positivity.

[lupinusalbus]

More on Jon, Dany & Sansa in Season 8

I rematched some of season eight recently and honed in on the finale in particular and two of Jon’s scenes with Tyrion.  I wrote a post about it that got some good discussion, you can read it here.  My contention was that those two scenes were the straw that broke the camel’s back and almost totally ruined Jon’s character, even making him into a caricature of his former self.  My argument wasn’t that the rest of season eight was wonderful, since there were a lot of other plot holes and omissions.  But I did think the series could have wrapped up better for Jon if the writers had not had him arguing with Tyrion and even justifying Dany’s clearly evil actions.  Some people have told me they thought Jon was just “in denial” in that scene, but I’m not sure because the only thing that seemed to wake him up was Tyrion’s last comment about Arya and Sansa.  Then he seemed to not know right from wrong after he killed Dany either, in another horrible scene with Tyrion.  I think a lot of the discussion around season eight is related to what is going to happen in the books.  I’m not defending D&Ds writing at all, but at least some of the unpopular events of season eight probably come directly from what Martin told them and then D&D messed up the execution because they were so focused on delivering spectacle over substance.  

I can’t remember where I read it now, but its probably true that many of the events of season eight are slated to happen in A Dream of Spring.  That may mean that it will be years before we ever find out Martin’s intentions about Jon Snow’s role in the plot after he comes back from the dead.  I think its pretty certain that Dany is going to burn King’s Landing like she did in The Bells. One of the reasons is because it was even foreshadowed earlier in the show when Bran had the vision of the Dragon’s shadow over King’s Landing, and also Dany’s vision in the House of the Undying.  If you recall, Dany saw herself next to the Iron Throne in a scene reminiscent of the finale, and also saw herself going across The Wall and seeing the dead Drogo and their baby.  So her death was always going to be brought about by Jon, and probably in the Red Keep.  Maybe there will be a second dance of dragons in the books, since Martin hinted at it, and maybe Jon will be involved, since he did ride Rhaegal.  Or maybe fAegon will be involved, we don’t know.  

I think there is reason to believe Jon will bend the knee in the books as well, but I don’t fault anyone who thinks otherwise.  One of the reasons I think so is that Dany fed Jon’s line to Mance back to him “isn’t their survival more important than your pride?” Even though we know this line is especially rich coming from Dany, it is something that Jon would seriously ask himself.  So there is a possible answer for people who doubt Jon would “betray” the North by kneeling.  Tormund (I think) also says something like this about Mance when jon and he are walking together during the Wight Hunt.  So it seems like this is a possible answer that was set up by D&D in the show, and that explanation may also be in line with what Jon tells the Northern Lords and Sansa.  We don’t have to like it, and Dany may actually have been better off had Jon not bent the knee, but she kind of instigated the whole thing by feeding that line to Jon about his pride.

And Jon’s arc as a whole is meant to shadow Ned’s.  It can be argued that Ned pulled off a big deception by keeping Jon’s parents secret, so he was capable of lying.  But on the other hand, Ned’s downfall is linked to his being idealistic and doing his duty.  He tipped Cersei off that he knew about Jaimie being her children’s father, and he trusted Littlefinger too.  His arc in King’s Landing was about an honorable man walking into a nest of vipers.  Sansa has the best handle on what happened to Ned, and that’s why she warns Jon; she sees Jon as being too much like him.  Jon’s reasons for killing Dany also mirror Ned’s reason for “confessing” - saving the girls.  After talking to Varys, Ned puts his pride aside and confesses to being a traitor.

Jon’s actions in the Red Keep echo Ned’s in another way. After the first sack of King’s Landing, Ned left in a rage over the murders of Elia Martel’s children.  Jon confronts Dany about her burning of children after her “sack.”  In some sense Jon’s killing of Dany finishes Ned’s arc, because Jon’s action brings about a “New Kingdom” which will hopefully be more just for everyone. Jon proves to be Ned’s son and not a Targaryen.  In any case, this is another reason to think that Jon was not engaging in a deception when he bent the knee to Dany and became her lover.  Had he done so, it would have weakened the elegance of his arc concerning Jon’s parallels with Ned Stark.

Sansa and Jon are both Ned’s Children and his “Spiritual Heirs”

The arc of Sansa and Jon’s relationship is one of the most fascinating ones in the series, and will probably be so in the books as well.  In the show, Sansa reunites with Jon Snow after escaping an abusive marriage with Ramsay Bolton.  The two were not close as children, although in the books they think about each other sometimes.  In the show, after the two have an emotional reunion at Castle Black, one of Jon’s first actions is to tell Sansa that they will stay together after he leaves the Night’s Watch.  This signifies how he thinks of her: he will take on Ned’s role as her protector.  Of course this may be foreshadowing other things as well, but at the very least, Jon’s commitment to Sansa, Ned’s memory, and the Starks is on full display.  Sansa has been bereft of the kindness and love of her family for so long, and Jon is restoring it to her.  In her new maturity, Sansa apologizes to Jon for her haughty ways of the past, although Jon is quite magnanimous about it.  Soon, she convinces Jon to try and regain Winterfell.  Although Sansa has never actively disliked Jon, apparently she has gained new insights into his goodness and has accepted him as a true son of Ned Stark, even if his name is Snow.  If something similar happens in the books, part of Sansa’s insight here may be related to her having spent time as the “bastard,” Alayne Stone.

Although there are hints of conflict between Jon and Sansa in the story, and Sansa is shown to be more perceptive than Jon about his relationship with Dany, Sansa is loyal to Jon.  This is foreshadowed in the scene where Jon admonishes Sansa that they need to trust each other and can’t fight a war amongst themselves.  Much is always made about how Sansa has learned things from treacherous characters like Cersei and Littlefinger, but she has also learned from Jon who may be the purest character on the show.  The disagreements between Jon and Sansa revolve around trust and faith.  Even though Jon has been blind in some respects, he is never really motivated by revenge or the pursuit of power.  Sansa’s arc is often about finding the medium between her considerable ability to analyze and anticipate situations, yet trying to stay true to the ideals of Ned and Jon.

Had Sansa lost faith in Jon and turned away from him, this would have affected the symmetry of her arc with him.  Instead she found a way to try and protect him, while at the same time maintaining the integrity of House Stark and retaining Northern independence.  Together, the Stark children have ushered in a new era for Westeros.  This was especially brought about through Jon (like Ned before him) making a fateful choice and taking upon himself a reviled label.  Jon’s story, as it was given imperfectly in the series, is the fulfillment of a wider arc.

[ourmrsreynolds]

Hi there, a fellow jonrya stan here :) I just read through your jonrya meta (it's so good) and I'm curious about your thoughts on GRRM possibly going dark!Jon in the books? I'd love it, a resurrected Jon would not be the same Jon after all. Just think about the endless opportunities of jealous!Jon coming to fuck Ramsay up in Arya's name. Would be totally in character if you asked me.

hiii thanks for dropping by! im always happy to scream about jonrya. i … feel underqualified to answer this ask? i feel like we were cheated out of dark!Jon by the show, a feeling i’m sure 90% of the fandom shares. Jon going full feral to GET HIS BRIDE BACK is a thing i desperately need in my life.

I can’t help but notice that most of my own shitposting/emotional vomiting on this topic has tended to center on Jon and Arya being outsiders growing up, and their unbreakable bond–also that the most popular jonrya fics are for the most part about them hooking up in Winterfell pre-GOT. To be clear I have read and reread all these stories and love them dearly, I’m just pointing out that dark!Jon is an under-theorized topic.

To state the obvious: Arya is really the natural person to help Jon wrestle with the R+L=J revelation, which is going to be a big part of dark!Jon’s demons.

Esther Perel, a Belgian psychotherapist, has this to say about the inherently contradictory demands that our modern ideal of romantic love, ie. your One True Soulmate, places on our partner:

So what sustains desire, and why is it so difficult? And at the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs. On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability, for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence. All these anchoring, grounding experiences of our lives that we call “home”. But we also have an equally strong need—men and women—for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger, for the unknown, for the unexpected, for surprise, for journey, for travel. […] So we come to one person, and we basically are asking them to give us what once an entire village used to provide. Give me belonging, give me identity, give me continuity, but give me transcendence and mystery and awe all in one. Give me comfort, give me edge. Give me novelty, give me familiarity. Give me predictability, give me surprise.

I mean, that’s ridiculous to expect one person to give you all of that. You should obviously cultivate a lot of quality friendships if you wanna improve your quality of life. That being said, GRRM told us himself that Jon Snow is Arya Stark’s home. If either of them wants safety & permanence they are the first person they’d look to. The significance of dark!Jon is, I think, that he (like Cat, like Beric) is resurrected as a different person, and that supplies the danger/surprise element that’s integral to any relationship. They have to relearn each other (”What would she look like now? Would he even know her?”). I’m always struck by how ADWD!Jon has this totally wrongheaded idea about Arya as a little girl who needs his protection. On one hand I’m here for protective!Jon. Otoh the idea of sending her to Eastwatch so he can pack her off to the Free Cities when she’s literally trying to find her way back to him from the Free Cities!!! I can’t wait for them to reunite and catch up and not spend 90% of it talking about Sansa.

[princesssarcastia]

GOT s8e2

I would like to start off by saying that its REAL FUCKIN RUDE I'm gonna have to wait another episode to see them fight the night king.  just from a “need moar  plot” standpoint.  

That being said, we best judge a series by its filler episodes.  As a filler episode? this was okay.  it was, you know, fine.  They had some excellent beats, most of which surprisingly revolved around Jamie Lannister, and the flow was good.  for me, though, I think it lacked...gravity.  depth.  they threw so many characters together in so many combinations, it was like they were going down a list ticking off “last moments.”

anyway. 

im...continually disappointed by daenerys.  this episode was a little better than the last, I guess??? but I still don't like her!  which isn’t fun because she’s always been one of my favorites.  Her bringing up Viserys as a way to prosecute Jamie for killing Aerys was hugely disappointing.  Viserys was absolute scum! And she knew this!  And she knows that Aerys was absolute shit and Jamie was well within his rights to kill him!!!! but she threw a fit about it anyway.

it really bugs me because there are sooooo many legitimate things to prosecute him for, and yet Aerys is the one she focuses in on.  0/10 stars, get some better judgement. 

Bran has yet to have a real human emotion this season; they BETTER be saving up for him to show some whole-ass fear against the night king, or to have a mufasa moment with his father in a vision or something.  I thought Jamie would do it, but he’s right that they’d kill him on sight if he spoke up. 

Edd and Sam and Jon!!! The dream team back together once again to kick ass and take names and face imminent death with sarcastic remarks, courage, and honor/angst, respectively.

Jorah Mormont’s defense of Tyrion to daenerys was excellent.  I loved that moment!  I loved that he's consistently honorable, and reminding Dany of the person she used to be.  also ngl she still has better chemistry/actual emotions with him than with Jon, which is why...

daenerys’s attempt to bond with Sansa over Jon was nice, but it didn't quite hit home because I still don't believe that daenerys and Jon are in love.  its a shoehorned romance that isn’t backed up by Kit and Emilia’s acting skills.  and what bugs me the most is that these actors are good actors!!! they have the range for it; in fact they've done it before on this show with different characters.  but somehow they can't do it with each other, fuck. remember that one post, about how if they have to kiss for the reader to know they're in love, its not a good romance?? Well DD did not remember that post.

so I guess it was nice that Sansa and Dany had that moment.  But I really appreciated Sansa.  she was the highlight of the scene, bringing up the north until Dany pulled away; making Dany uncomfortable because she knows the north will not kneel to her willingly.  In my heart of hearts, I hope Sansa’s words may have planted a seed of doubt in Daenerys about her actions, but I know it just made her mad. 

and then, we get to watch daenerys watch Theon and Sansa reunite (damn even these two have better chemistry than Dany and Jon!!!) which was, honestly, almost my favorite moment of the show.  Sansa so far has presented this icy facade to Dany, and I think Dany thought that was just who Sansa was.  but it’s not.  she loves so deeply for a select few, and theon is one of them, and this scene was kind of a way to rub Theon’s devotion to Sansa in daenerys’ face.  

Tyrion and Jamie’s talks together were uh, nice.  no depth, no emotion beyond a general camaraderie, but you know, that relationship’s been stagnant since DD glossed over their reunion under king’s landing last season, so I wasn't surprised.  kudos to tyrion for that zinger about Jamie knowing who cersei was and loving her anyway.

Podrick can fight!! Brienne taught him so well!!! also damn, podrick can sing???is there anything he can’t do?? any flaws he may possess?? apparently not.

hands down best part of this episode was Brienne and Jamie.  Brienne is so confused that Jamie’s being nice to her it breaks my HEART, my little fangirl heart that has read this interaction trope so many times and still eats it up with a spoon. Jamie respecting her as a warrior, treating her with integrity, knighting her oh my god, AHHHH.  

Tormund, my man, you tried your. best, but I think Brienne is stuck on Jamie.  And your cultural differences continue to make excellent comic relief, if only on the faces of the other characters in your proximity. 

Arya and Sandor’s little scene was mostly a tick off a checkpoint moment, no depth.  

Jorah’s moment with Lady Mormont was a little better; it snuck up on me, I will admit, and I like that it happened, but again; very little depth.  Jorah’s moment with Sam was a little better.

Arya and Gendry’s scenes were a little more satisfying.  I would have liked more depth, but also I love arya surprising people who knew her before with her fighting prowess, so ill forgive it.  ( I cannot BELIEVE arya motherfucking stark pulled the “virgin before a big battle” card.  it cracked me up).  Also loved Arya wanting a pole weapon.

Greyworm and Missandei are adorbs.  Now That’s What I Call Chemisty! Take notes, Dany and jon.  I want to see their road trip to Narth so bad!! Let them live, let them grow old and be kind together. 

I would just like to say that I KNEW Daenerys would try to deny what Jon was telling her because it made him the last male targaryen heir.  I knew it!!!!  And I love that they started with Lyanna.  Lyanna is such an important character for the series, one I wish to god we got to see more of.  Now, Dany either dies before this gets resolved or has to decide what kind of person she’s going to be  afterwards, when she has to deal with this. 

I’m a little mad the stark sibs didn't choose to spend some of their last moments with each other, but I think that choice stems from how their relationships have been written post-reunions.  It’s in character; it just means they aren't the characters I was hoping they’d be. 

Overall, 5/10.  Half of it was good, half of it was mediocre at best, and the mediocre parts stemmed from writing issues that are becoming endemic of game of thrones.  hopefully the next episode will be better. 

[killthebxy-archive]

1. being bastard born in Westeros

          let me start with a simple but crucial point: Westeros is a medieval society --- which means it is traditional and built on strong patriarchal foundations, for the most part. Westeros is a racist, sexist, ableist society. and, in Westeros, and especially among the highborn, it is very rare that you will marry for love. if you are highborn, you will marry someone of similar status based on some benefit that this alliance will bring to your parents/ family/ house. if you’re lucky, you will eventually learn to love your spouse, but that is not a requirement --- what is expected of you is to have strong sons (preferably, that the firstborn is a boy) and beautiful daughters to continue your legacy. and you are expected to fulfill this goal together with the lord husband/ lady wife so carefully picked for you.

          what does being bastard born mean? simply put, it means your parents are not married. it means either you were conceived before your parents got married (either to each other or to another person), or that you were conceived through adultery (consensual or not). and, let’s be real, six of the seven kingdoms, Dorne being the exception, do not regard illegitimate children in a positive light. being bastard born, based on what i wrote before, means you were born from lust and/or from betrayal, and this, in this society, immediately implies you have bad blood. it immediately implies that a baby still in the mother’s womb is already expected to grow up to be wanton, treacherous, cunning, ambitious.

          this may not seem obvious but, in a way, being a highborn bastard is more difficult than being a lowborn one. one the one hand, it is rare that the illegitimate child of a big (or even smaller) House of Westeros will be allowed to live with their family, or even to be acknowledged at all. for example, out of all the bastards Robert Baratheon fathered, only Edric Storm and Mya Stone are directly linked to his name. Ned Stark is a rare exception in this case, for raising Jon Snow as his own son. note: for the purpose of this meta, i am assuming what we know from book canon up until the end of ADWD: Jon is the child of Ned and an unknown woman. i will speak of Rhaegar Targaryen further on, but this is the assumption of this whole piece of text.

          for this reason, highborn bastards are also seen as a much bigger threat. why? because it is common belief that they will try and steal what belongs to the legitimate children by birthright. again, because they are seen as inherently envious and treacherous. GRRM provides some tales throughout the books, of bloodshed between half-siblings for the sake of power, and Ramsay Snow/ Bolton emerges as prime example of such --- stopping at nothing to earn himself a legitimate name, first, and then the ruling of House Bolton + Winterfell.

2. Jon Snow as a bastard child

          no surprises, everything i just mentioned is valid in Jon’s case. Catelyn Stark herself worries that Jon will be a threat to her children, and, for example, argues with Robb when it is his will to make Jon the new King in the North, should Robb himself fall in battle. and this is important to mention for two motives. one, because Cat doesn’t despise Jon for his personality or character traits or any possible flaws --- she despises him for the symbol he is. and we are presented with evidence that she resents herself for being this way, for being unable to love a motherless child, but the very negative connotation of Jon’s birth and everything it entails make it impossible for her to treat him differently. and it doesn’t help that Jon is always described as the spitting image of Ned Stark (or the Starks in general), while her own legitimate children (Arya being the exception) have 100% the Tully looks.

          and, before i get to the second motive, let me point this out. have you wondered why Jon hates to be called Lord Snow, once he arrives at Castle Black? it may seem odd, because, objectively, it is a respectful title --- Jon is technically highborn, and Snow is his last name. however, the negative stigma of being bastard born is, exactly, why this title is both used and taken as mockery. because a bastard has no right to inherit anything --- therefore, has no right to be a lord unless legitimized. treating Jon as Lord Snow is actually incredibly cruel, because it is both throwing on his face something he can never have (i.e., Lord), and, at the same time, the reason for it (i.e., Snow, the name given to the bastards of the North). and this is so prevalent that it keeps happening even after Jon is elected to be lord commander, as we can clearly see in the discourse of Janos Slynt and Godry Farring, for example. even Ramsay, after becoming a Bolton, is still often described/ regarded under the light of his birth. being bastard born is something that accompanies you for life, almost always in a negative manner, and there is very little (if anything) you can do to distance your own identity from it. for the most part and for most people in Westeros, you don’t exist as Jon Snow --- you exist as Ned Stark’s bastard.

3. internalization of the stigma

          everything above brings me to the core of this meta: the impact that being bastard born has on Jon’s identity/ personality/ psychological functioning. and, to start this, i could pick half a hundred quotes from Jon’s chapters, but i’ll pick one that particularly speaks to me:

they still think me a turncloak. that was a bitter draft to drink, but Jon could not blame them. he was a bastard, after all. everyone knew that bastards were wanton and treacherous by nature, having been born of lust and deceit.

A Storm of Swords --- Blood and Gold, pp.171

          this isn’t anyone talking about Jon; this isn’t Alliser Thorne of Janos Slynt or Cregan Karstark calling him the bastard son of a traitor --- this is Jon speaking of himself. this is Jon describing himself as a bastard and everything it entails, to the point where he cannot even bring himself to blame others for mistrusting him --- because it is to be expected, because it is his own fault for being bastard born. this isn’t the first time in the books such an appreciation is found, we can already see similar introspection in the first half of the first book. Jon has entirely internalized the stigma of being bastard born. now, from the ever-helpful Wikipedia:

social stigma: disapproval of (or discontent with) a person based on socially characteristic grounds that are perceived, and serve to distinguish them, from other members of a society.

internalization: involves the integration of attitudes, values, standards and the opinions of others into one's own identity or sense of self.

          basically, what this means is that Jon sees himself, whilst a bastard, the same way society does. it means that he was taught what being bastard born means (all the negative connotations i wrote before), and he’s accepted this as being true in regards to himself. he seems himself as different, for being bastard born, and he sees himself as lesser. and this doesn’t happen at Castle Black, where he starts being mocked as Lord Snow. this has started before he was even born, because he’s not seen as a baby but as the proof that even the honorable Eddard Stark once screwed up, and this continued throughout his childhood and early teen years, when he was raised and educated like the rest of Ned’s children but, at the same time, was ever made to know his place and that he was different --- that he was below them. for example, how he’s not allowed to sit at the dais together with his family when King Robert’s court visits Winterfell, because such a thing could cause offense to the royal family. as curiosity, reminder that, in the books, this is exactly the reason Jon gives to Mance Rayder to convince him that he was a desertor: did you see where i was sitting, Mance?

          what is this impact on Jon’s functioning then? first and foremost, it means he tends to see himself in a negative regard. during his first chapters, like when he firstly arrives at Castle Black, he tries to externalize this burden. he’s cocky and he’s immature and he acts on his short temper and makes every other new recruit hate him. why? because he so much wants to prove (to them, to Benjen Stark, to the Night’s Watch as a whole, to himself) that he’s better than everyone else --- that he’s better than his symbol as a bastard, that he’s better than what everyone expects of him. we don’t really get a chapter where Jon tells Benjen (or anyone) why he wants to take the black --- by the time they talk, Jon has already made up his mind. therefore, this bit is a headcanon on my part, but i don’t think i’m wrong in assuming that Jon wanted to join the Night’s Watch because he didn’t have anything else left for his future. he’d never have a right to Winterfell, and the most he could ever hope to inherit was, maybe, some little keep somewhere in the North, and to defend it under Robb’s name. the Watch gave him at least an opportunity to rise above his bastard status, and, when he arrives there and keeps being treated the same, that’s when he snaps and starts literally bullying everyone else for it.

          Donal Noye has a crucial role in Jon’s change, and he is also the underlying tone of the whole kill the boy and let the man be born --- but this is subject for another meta, and i will not touch it here. basically, once he starts treating the Night’s Watch as his new family/ home, Jon’s negative regard of himself slowly and gradually stops being directed to the outside, and starts being directed to the inside --- to his own self. this becomes exponential after Ygritte’s death (which he blames himself for, not exactly for being bastard born, but he still does and this adds up), and even more so after he’s elected lord commander. and, as i like to say, when you look at AGOT Jon and ADWD Jon, you see two different persons. lord commander Jon forces himself to be guarded and isolated, for the sake of better leading his men, and he suffers a lot with insecurities and self-doubt --- because, let’s be real, he’s a 16 year old boy suddenly charged with responsibility to guide nineteen castles and all the men and women inhabiting them. we often see Jon wondering what Ned would have done in his stead, and even more often we see him worrying if he’s making the right decision --- but having to push through, anyway, because winter is almost upon them and he doesn’t have time to sulk.

          and what does being bastard born have to do with this? it is, exactly, the fact that Jon, simply put, believes he’s a bad person because he’s a bastard --- and how he’s come from trying to fight against it, literally fight, to accepting it and letting it subconsciously become his default mode of functioning. Jon is a perfectionist and very, very hardworking, because he knows there’s no other way for him to be. let it be known that both Jon and i love Robb beyond any words, but Robb is the heir --- whenever Robb makes a mistake, that’s okay because everyone knows he’s honorable and righteous like his father, so it’s human to make mistakes. when Jon Snow makes a mistake, it is because of his bad blood and because he’s the bastard son of a traitor, and what else could you expect. this is why none of the Stark children can ever understand what being a Snow entails, even Arya who ever fought for the sake of her brother being treated as an equal. Jon lives on the edge, constantly, and he’s well aware he’s got no room to make mistakes.

          this is why he’s always so sullen, this is why he takes apparently harmless jokes very personally, this is why he has a hard time believing in praise offered to him. because his entire identity is built on being inherently less than most others, even before his birth, which leads him to always having to push his limits and be perfect --- being good isn’t enough for him, he cannot allow himself the luxury of making a bad decision --- and this is tenfold when he’s in a position of leadership, be it as lord commander or, in show canon, King in the North. which, non-surprisingly, is extremely tiring and always has him under tension. and this is also why he tends to draw to himself the guilt over matters that aren’t even directly under his control, and why his biggest fear is the fear of failure. because, all his life, Jon Snow wanted to be Jon Stark --- wanted to prove to his father, and then to everyone else, that he was more than a negative symbol, and worthy of his/their trust and acknowledgment. failing, even something as silly as sending a raven during the night when he was supposed to send it during the morning, means he’s not worthy of his father’s name; it means that the world is right, and that he’s no more than his bad blood. needless to say, all of this is why Jon is so adamantly against fathering bastards of his own --- because he would never want a son/daughter to have to carry the burden he’s carried for his entire life.

          as a conclusion, this is also why, in this blog, the annulment of Rhaegar’s and Elia’s marriage will never be accepted. it goes without saying that Elia deserved so much better, but the point of this meta is that being bastard born is the foundation of Jon’s identity, and it has impacted his story and functioning in ways that cannot be erased. suddenly making him Aegon Targaryen 2.0. for the sake of sitting his fine ass on the Iron Throne does NOT change his past and does NOT change who he is. therefore, in my personal portrayal of Jon Snow, even in purely show-based threads and despite what season 8 may throw at us, he will always be bastard born --- Ned’s bastard or Rhaegar’s bastard, it makes no difference. because the Jon i love and write doesn’t need to be of legitimate blood to matter and to be valid, nor will i ever completely erase and disregard the circumstances that made/ make him who he is.

[thebluelemontree]

Hey! First of all: I love your blog & meta. Second; do you have any other ASOIAF ships you like other than Sansan ( like Gendrya and J/B) & why?

Thanks!  Definitely Gendrya and JB.  My ships just tend to be canon ships.  Maybe that doesn’t make me very creative, but I really just like seeing why people click.  For the most part, I think George is pretty good about making sure his pairings have shared core values, they grow and change each other.  He also gives them internal conflicts to overcome.  There’s value in the relationship whether they wind up together or not.

How could I not like JB when it’s another twist on the BatB theme?  My hope for TWOW is that we see Jaime and Hyle Hunt actually have a legit rivalry for Brienne’s affections.  A sort of do over from the fake courtship at Renly’s camp.  I’m not really rooting for Ser Hyle (I do hope LS doesn’t hang the doofus), but he just might be what Jaime needs to finally act on his feelings.    

While Arya is struggling with trying to forget her true identity, it’s Gendry that’s keeping the porch light on, waiting for her to come home.  They both care about fairness and justice for the smallfolk, but ever since he found out she was Arya Stark he’s been plagued with insecurities.  It pisses him off when Arya suggests he could come back to Winterfell and smith for her family, not realizing that Gendry is acutely aware that her family would never allow them to have such a familiar relationship.  He’s finally found someone he connects with then he’s knocked back down by class boundaries.  IIRC, it’s Lem that says he can find work smithing in any lord’s castle, but Gendry chooses to stay with the BwB and smith for them.  For the first time in his life, he’s being offered a choice of what he wants to do.  What he really wants is to be a knight (he’s made his own helm and making his own sword).  He’s hoping Beric can do that for him one day.  Arya views this as another rejection and abandonment from her little pack of Gendry and Hot Pie.  But I think it’s significant that Gendry is trying to raise himself up a bit more, despite all his resentment towards the noble class.  Anyway, their spat hardly matters when the Hound steals her away.  He’s staying close to the inn at the crossroads where Arya was last sighted.  There’s still blood stains on the floor from the fight with the Mountain’s men.  He’s heard the stories of the Saltpans and he must be imagining the very worst.  He’s living with Arya’s ghost and hoping she’ll come back.  Now Brienne is with the BwB and perhaps can train him, tell him about his parentage, and what she knows happened to Arya.

Let’s see, there’s also Jon and Val.  I don’t know why there isn’t more Jon and Val shipping because they flirt a lot on page.  He’s definitely attracted to confident women that can teach him a thing or two.  Jon thinks she’s beautiful and has thought about marrying her, having a child with her.  He’s already “stolen” her, but Jon You-Know-Nothing Snow doesn’t realize it... again!  They are working together to save as many people as they can from the Others.  He thinks Ghost and Val “belong together.”  He respects her and entrusts her with an important mission to find Tormud.  If she had failed to return, Stannis would have likely executed Jon.  There’s just so much potential there, but we just don’t know what’s going to happen to post resurrection Jon.  But she is the most similar to Queen Nymeria on page than any other character.  What she and Jon are doing mirrors Nymeria and Mors Martell with the Rhoynish integration into Dorne. 

Well I do have one crackship and I mentioned this before:  Myranda Royce and Timmett One-Eye.  Myranda’s been quite disappointed in love and (my theory) the reason why Lady Anya rejected her as a bride for Harry the Heir is because she’s a big girl.  In TWOW sample, Harry dumped Cissy, the mother of his first child because she gained weight during pregnancy.  His reaction is unequivocally fatphobic.  Lady Anya arranged for Cissy to marry one of her household guards.  Because it would be political and social suicide for her family to arrange a marriage for her future high lord with a wife he would find ugly, Lady Anya rejects the suit.  That’s why Myranda takes it so personally why she’s so hurt by Harry the Arse.  Now her father is threatening to marry her to an unwanted suitor (like Uthor Shett or Ossifer Lipps) just to be rid of her.  Notice that she’s looks to a strong man like Lyn Corbray for a husband, but alas, she doesn’t have the right plumbing for him.  Timmett, like Val, is a bit different for a wildling.  He’s slightly more sophisticated than Shagga or Chella.  There’s a theory that he’s the son of the Waynwood daughter that was stolen by Burned Men on her way to marry a Bracken.  I have absolutely no proof of this happening, but I’m kinda low key hoping that Sansa remembers Timmett from his time in KL and is able to broker a kind of peace deal in the Vale.  Perhaps Timmett would like to be introduced to her spirited, chestnut-haired friend.  Or maybe he just steals her.  lol I told you it was crackship!  

[masha-russia]

GRRM questions/answers

Today I met GRRM and he held a 2-hour long session of question-answers. We were asked to write our questions on a piece of paper that were put in a box, and GRRM and his translators randomly chose them. There were silly questions and questions that he was asked many times before, but some were good questions and I took note of everything interesting he said.

- He was asked about the influence of American history on ASOIAF and GRRM said there was none. He was influenced by European medieval history, notably the Scottish history which was very violent, and not the American one.

- My question about Daenerys was chosen as the third question (I was lucky!) but he refused to answer it lol … I asked “How old was Daenerys when she left the house with the red door, and was it located close to the palace of the Sealord of Braavos?” (thanks Butterfly for suggesting it to me) I don’t know why he refused to answer about her age, but about the house with the red door he said there will be more revelations about it in future books.

- He was asked about his future projects (after ASOIAF) twice, and said that he concentrates on ASOIAF for now, and that after the main novels he has from 6 to 8 Dunk and Egg stories to write.

- He was asked where is Rickon and what will happen to him (a reader who forgot a part of ADWD it seems). GRRM said Rickon will appear in TWOW (why he answered this question but not the one about Daenerys’ age eludes me).

- There was a good question about the genders of dragons, but the whole audience laughed (“How to tell a male dragon from a female dragon?” I guess the one who asked this was more of a reader and the rest of the audience were more casual about their ASOIAF knowledge) so the question was a bit dismissed by GRRM as a joke. He said that it is not easy to understand the sex of dragons, sometimes even the dragons don’t understand it, and that if it lays eggs, the dragon is assumed female.

- GRRM said that he will not be reading any new chapter from TWOW. He has read enough of them already, and that if he keeps doing it, half of his book will be read before it is published. So I guess we won’t have new material from TWOW until it is released.

- What inspired him to create Ramsay Snow? GRRM said, and I quote, that he needed something “to bite Theon in the ass”. Ramsay was created for Theon’s storyline, and he is first presented as a prisoner and a servant and then rises to a high position while Theon becomes his prisoner and servant. Then there was a question about House Bolton in general (that they are a very interesting and mysterious House), and whether we will know more about their history. GRRM answered that he does not plan to write a book about them but probably in Fire And Blood there will be something.

- “It is rumored that there are 4 descendants of Dunk in ASOIAF. Can you say something about it?” George: “Possible, possible”.

- An interesting question was “Why are there so many sons who are unloved by their fathers, like Sam, Jon, Tyrion and Theon?” I watched George’s reaction carefully (I was sitting close to him) and he did not take issue with the assumption that Jon Snow is part of the “unloved sons” (obviously the dynamic talked about is Jon/Eddard, not Rhaegar). He nodded at the question and said that he does not have the full quote with him, but the great Russian writer Tolstoy once said that happy families are boring  - this was followed by a big round of applause cause every Russian knows this quote very well (the quote by Tolstoy is: All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.)

- He was asked about the real world equivalent of the Others, and he answered that the closest to it would be climate change. He talked quite a bit about it and said humanity needs to unite to face this threat and that it is urgent.

- “Will we know more about the origins of the Others?” Yes.

- “Are there industries in ASOIAF?” No.

- A good one was about Sansa - if she had told the truth at Darry, would Lady be still alive? GRRM said it is possible - Robert was not a thinker but an impetuous man, ruled by his emotions, so it could be that he would have directed his anger towards Joffrey instead of the direwolves. But it is not certain, because Robert wanted to keep peace in his marriage and might have decided to make Cersei happy on the matter of the direwolves anyway.

- “Does GRRM believe in absolute evil?” No, there is no absolute evil. Even the worst people in history had good qualities that unfortunately they did not use often, and there is “always possibility for redemption”.

- The person who wrote this question shouted “What about absolute evil as a concept, like death and oblivion?” which was a bit philosophical and GRRM talked about religions for a while, saying that they all promise eternal life but only after death. He then again stated that he does not believe in absolute evil, and said he explores the notion of “death is relief” with Arya’s storyline among the Faceless Men in Braavos.

- He always writes the book from the point of view of his characters, he becomes that character and sees things around him as the character would.

- He was asked to comment about the differences between the book and show characters, particularly Daenerys. GRRM ignored all the other characters and talked only about Daenerys - he said that the show one is older because there are laws in USA that prevent minors from having sex scenes so the decision was made to age Daenerys. Otherwise, book Daenerys and show Daenerys “are very similar” and “Emilia Clarke did a fantastic job”. (I guess he can’t really say negative things about the show, can he?)

- “Will Jorah ever get out of the friendzone?” (side-eyeing the person who asked this). GRRM: “I would not bet on it.”

- So here I will need your help to find out who GRRM was talking about - he was asked why did he kill Ned Stark, and he said that he already answered many times why he often kills off his main characters. Then he quoted an author named “Faulkner” (I do not know him, so I googled and found this name, but it could be “Folkner” or any similar spelling) who once said that “to be a hero sometimes you need to die.” Hmmmm

- He was asked about Hodor/Hold the door and if this was planned from the very beginning, and GRRM said indeed, he is great at planing and foreshadowing stuff, and that the mystery of Hodor’ name was with him since book 1. Unfortunately the show got ahead of him and reached this plot before he could, but he hopes he will get to it soon.

That’s pretty much it for the ASOIAF stuff. Some nice things not related to ASOIAF that he said:

- He loves cats (big round of applause).

- He respects integrity, honesty and being true to their principles the most in people.

- He was asked about time-travel and said it was fascinating - he talked for a while about the butterfly effect and of the novel A Sound of Thunder, and how stepping on a butterfly in the past resulted in dramatic changes in the present of the main protagonist, who returns and sees crazy far-right extremists in his country. He then threw shade at Trump and said “someone must have stepped on a butterfly” (round of applause) (GRRM posted about this on his FB just now).

- He loves caviar and “Saint-Petersburg is an amazing city”, he wishes he could see more of it.

- What would be an ideal crew to Mars? Another shade at Trump I guess, cause GRRM answered “it depends on whether the crew plans to come back”. lol (big round of applause).

- Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny is one of his favorite books.

Ok so that’s pretty much it :)

[occupyvenus]

We are not okay in fact we are slowly but surely dying

eeehhhh …. okay? I mean, that’s true, I suppose. 

… are you talking about the existential conclusion that all living does indead end with death, mixed with the realization that happiness is nothing but a fabrication of your brain to keep you from being utterly depressed by all these big, deep, philosophical questions, no one has a satisfying answer too, with the only objective being for the meat-sack your mind is inhabiting to go on functioning, which is forever compelled to follow the instinct of passing on your genes to the next generation, while you slowley accept the fact that the only inherent “meaning” behind your very existence is to secure some part of you has it’s place in your species gene-pool, because that’s how “life” itself has prevailed, dreading that all your “higher-functions” are nothing but evolutionary tools to do just that… in which case, I congratulate you on your existential crisis! Welcome to the club! I would recommend checking out Existentialism, Nihilism or Absurdism to get through that phase! I mean, that won’t change that all of this is factually true, a happy mind is mostly unaware of it’s own irrelevance. So yeah, we are only staying alive to die one day, but who cares? That’s just what living is. Fuck it, let’s watch some Game of Thrones. 

Or maybe, since we are at this topic … I mostly post about Jonsa, are you worried about the ship, nony? No, my love, don’t be. We are fine. Don’t let all the leaks and spoilers get you down. Nothing that has happened in canon so far (leaks don’t count as canon) has changed my opinion about Jonsa having a very, very good shot at happening and being endgame. So calm down, my dear, everything is alright.

I’ve talked a bit about what the spoilers/leaks/boatbang could mean for jonsa and how accurate the leaks even can be. Go through my “got-leaks”, “the fuckplot is on” or “got s7″ tags. Even better,  watch the Jonny chocks Littlefinger Crypts scene one more time, that should lighten your spirit. I was heaving a bit of a doubt-phase between ep1 and 2, but that scene kicked me straight out of it. Here read my ultimate break-down for the scene. It was jonsa-gold. LF knows something is off, which means something really is off. This scene (including it’s execution) only really makes scene, if we are moving in phase two of jonsa-becoming-canon-in-an-uncreepy-way: A character in the show, other than our two lovebirds, noticing and acknowledging the possibility. 

Don’t let the antis and nay-sayer get to you. That’s exactly what they want. Btw, no leaker “confirmed” (as if they actually had the power to do so) that jonsa was a red-herring. That was a misstranslation. Let me remind you of some of the key-arguments for believing in jonsa-endgame. (vs j0nerys, because their relationship in the leaks is causing all this panic. Approach with a bit of caution if you like both ships. ):

J0nerys has not always been “an integral part of the story”. J0nrya was the major love-story of the original outline. 

The series title was “a song of ice and fire” even back then. It’s not an indication that Jon and the D are the “central” characters of the story. House Stark is and always has been, the heart of the story. The last books orginial title was a “A time for wolves”, not “A time for dragons.”

Jon falling for one of the stark-sisters was an important plotpoint. This possiblity isn’t “far-fetched”. It’s not implausible “because they thought they are siblings”. The reveal of his true parentage would have ended the “torment” over his forbidden love. 

Sansas character is still around for a reason. Her original plot-line was changed for a reason. She was updated to being one of the key-six. Grrm talks about Jons, D@enerys, Brans, Tyrions, Aryas AND SANSAS story. She didn’t betray the starks, she didn’t marry joffrey, she didn’t die. She will not play a vital role in defeating the army of the dead (compared to three-eyed-raven bran, mother-of-dragons dany, or returned-from-the-dead-azor-ahai-ptwp-song-of-ice-and-fire-lightbringer-whatever-his-deal-is-in-the-end jon, etc.). This might sound a bit awful, but the only big important porpuse I can see for her character is to be jons love interest and having an important role in rebuilding westeros after the war as queen. Okay, it sounds pretty awful, I love sansa and her character, don’t get me wrong. I know what it sounds like.That’s not how I mean that.

Grrm didn’t put the sublte hints at jonsa in his books just ~ because. He takes about a century for writing each book, he thinks a long a time about what to do. Jon being the hero sansa prayed for, cutting off Janos Slynts head; Sansas time in the vale, hiding as someone else’s bastard; ned promising her someone brave and gentle and strong - promising someone like aemon, the dragonknight (even if jons targ-name isn’t aemon, he is still a targ); the prince she wanted turning out to be a bastard and the bastard she never much cared for turning out to be the prince she always dreamed of; jon dreaming of a family in winterfell, of children alike to the siblings he lost and sansa doing the same thing; jon refusing winterfell because it belongs to sansa, when sansa is afraid that people only want her “for her claim”; sansa being the only stark who senses his death ; “stone and snow” being all that’s left of winterfell, like her and jon; etc. 

When taking the changes in book-to-show-adapation into consideration: Sansas plotline was vastly changed again (more than that of any other charcter) for a reason. The biggest impact of this change was that she was reunited with another major character pre-schedule: Jon. Coincidence? Putting her there had absolutely no purpose, they didn’t even use it to flash out “the north remembers”. The only thing it really accomplished was to give us a season full of Jon and Sansa interacting. If all of this was building up to j0nerys, why didn’t they merge their plotlines pre-schedule? Why didn’t they cut her most boring plot (meereen, by popular vote) to put her onto Jons radar sooner? That’s exactly what they’ve done with Sansa. 

D&D themselves said that their relationship will be “crucial” to watch. So far, that promise hasn’t paid off. Their interactions were intersting, but not “crucial” to the overarching plot (for now).

Grrm himself has said, that “the meerenese blot” essays, a super long analysis of Danys time in Slavers Bay and specifically Meereen, with the ultimate conclusion that Dany is set onto a dark path, perfectly understood what he was trying to do there. There are so many signs that she will turn into an antagonist, if not somewhat villain, of the story. She and Jon might hook-up (I could see D&D writing in some sexy-time even if nothing like that happens in the books), but she will not be “the love of his life”.

Last, but not least the show has been dropping subtle hints about this left and right. From the apparent Ned/Cat parallels, to their choices in lightning, dialougue and settings. From Jon staring at Sansa tits, staring at her lips after an hour-long gentle foreheadkiss and literally threatening to KILL A DUDE IF HE TOUCHES HER. Sansa realizing that he is the exact opposite of Joffrey, building up his confidence as a stark, building up his confidence of as a king, being scared for his life when he decides to go south. If you’re feeling down, watch season 6 again.

Seriously, don’t take the leaks (a super-condensed, purely verbal, biased, unconfirmed summary of what might or might not happen) more seriously, than everything that has happened in canon so far. If you work under the assumption that Jonsa will happen, so many things fall right into place. It’s really hard to believe it doesn’t mean ~something~.

Most importantly: a ship doesn’t live or die with canon. A ship lives through it’s fandom. On the off-chance that D&D only accidently created one of the best instances of subtle foreshadowing in TV-history, setting the stage perfectly for this twist since Sansa and Jon first met again on the show... On the off-chance that the universe conspired to have all of these things line up to one conclusion for no reason at all ... yeah, so what? We have so many amazingly talented writers, artists, tinfoilers and co-shippers. The fandom will stay alive, even if we truely all are “delusional”. If all of this leads to nothing and j0nerys are destined to be together, to be the song of ice and fire and even more fire, save the world and have a magical targcest!baby, well there is only one thing I can say: 

Nony, we are okay. We are very much alive and will be so for the forseeable future. 

P.S. I am only midly concerned that I’m really not sure which one of the answers applies. I know it’s one of them, just not sure which one. So I wrote something for both, just in case. 

[lawonderlandwriter]

Things that will most definitely come into play in Game of Thrones season 8

In no particular order (and under the cut cuz this is quite long):

Arya being a Faceless Man. So, we all know that even though Arya has reclaimed her name and has left Braavos and the House of Black and White, she still has the ability to take faces and use them. And while it was completely badass to see her as Walder Frey in the season 7 premiere - using his identity to kill all the Frey men - I think her skills/powers aren’t done yet. We all know she still keeps some of the faces so why would she keep them if she has no intention of using them again? Some people believe she will somehow use Baelish’s face to kill Cersei but I don’t believe this. It’s entirely possible but I don’t think it’s the way Cersei will go. Also, lots of people witnessed Baelish’s death so if he were to be up and walking around again, people would be suspicious. However, this does’t mean Arya couldn’t take other faces and do something with them. I guess we shall have to wait and see.

Cersei hiring the Golden Company. So since I’m not quite finished reading the Song of Ice and Fire series, I don’t take credit for this theory first hand, but it has been making the rounds recently. Some book readers have pointed out that in the books, the Golden Company is no longer a sell sword service but have pledged themselves to someone they believe to be a Targaryen because apparently they have ties and loyalties to the Targaryens. Since this plot obviously hasn’t been shown in the show, I can’t help but think that D&D are saving this for season 8 and that possibly the Golden Company, upon being brought to Westeros, will simply switch sides and instead fight for Daenerys and Jon instead of Cersei. 

Theon going to save Yara. Season 7 left us with Theon finally proving himself to the ironborn and them heading out to save Yara. Yara, Theon believes, is being held captive by Euron. So, if Theon happens to defeat Euron and kill him, the rest of the ironborn and the Iron Fleet will then be loyal to him (and Yara if she lives). This means, in turn, they’ll be loyal to Daenerys as she promised them their independence in exchange for their help. This could also tie into the Golden Company plot line as Euron is off to ferry them to Westeros. If Euron happens to be killed en route, this lends even more to the theory that the Golden Company may be Cersei’s downfall and will not be loyal to her.

Ice and the two swords. The Stark Family ancestral Valyrian steel sword, Ice, is only seen whole in season one and book one. Next we see of Ice is in the opening scene of the premiere of season four of GoT where it is being reforged at the request of Tywin Lannister. The two swords to come of it are Oathkeeper (Jaime’s sword which he later gifts to Brienne) and Widow’s Wail (Joffery’s sword which later passes to Jaime after his death). Now, it seems highly unlikely to me that we would get an entire opening scene in a season premiere dedicated to this sword’s reforging for no apparent reason. And up until now, we’ve really got no payoff for that scene. Yes Brienne still carries it and is now sworn to Sansa Stark, but the fact that it was her father’s sword hasn’t come up again. And now that Jaime has left King’s Landing for Winterfell to help in the War for the Dawn with the other half of the sword in tow, it makes sense that these two halves of the Stark ancestral sword will have a larger role in season 8.

Beric Dondarrion and Melisandre. As we all know, Beric Dondarrion has been brought back from the dead a total of six times by Thoros of Myr and Melisandre has brought back Jon Snow once. Now, in the books, Beric’s character is actually already dead (for a final time), because he gave his life to bring back Catelyn Stark after she was killed at the Red Wedding. In the show, season 7 episode 6, The Hound makes a comment about Beric needing to be careful because he was on his last life, as Thoros was dead and wouldn’t be able to revive him again. So this seems interesting to me. Obviously, Catelyn Stark’s revived character isn’t much important to the story if she’s not in the show. Parts of her storyline have been taken by Beric and Arya. But this still hints at Beric possibly dying for good, and in the process, giving his life to bring back someone else from the dead. Likewise, Melisandre told Varys in 7x3 that she would return to Westeros one last time to die there. Based on the books and hints throughout the show, it would make sense if Melisandre died bringing someone else back to life as well. One of the supposed season 8 leaks mentions just this and that it would be Arya who Melisandre would bring back and die for. But I don’t see this happening. Arya doesn’t seem as important a character as Jon or Daenerys (though I love her) so for her to be the one Melisandre brings back seems unlikely. But that doesn’t mean she won’t bring back someone else in season 8.  

Ice and Fire. Obviously ice and fire play a role in the series. It’s literally called A Song of Ice and Fire. We are constantly hit with parallel after parallel of ice and fire, Jon and Daenerys, Stark / Targaryen, Direwolf / Dragon, North / South, East / West, death / life, light / dark. It’s literally all over the place. There are parallels in almost everything in the series. We’ve got a literal Wall of Ice in the story. Dragon’s breathing fire. White Walkers and wights that can be killed by fire. There’s something in that. Fire destroying ice. Maybe? Or the “Together” theme from season 7 foreshadowing a literal way ice and fire can be used to defeat the army of the dead?

The Original 5. This is a bit more shaky but I still feel like it may come into play somehow. Back before GRRM finished his first novel (I think), he had stated that there were five key players in the series - his original outlines and notes have been making the rounds recently. And those original five are: Tyrion, Bran, Arya, and of course, Jon and Daenerys. Now lots of things from the original plot never happened. I think there was a Tyrion, Arya, Jon love triangle in there somewhere, which ick. But, trivial details like that are obviously easily changeable. But having a key group of characters doesn’t really. If they were the original key characters, and they’re all still alive seven seasons and five books in, it makes sense they’d still be key characters. What they all have to do with each other and what they all have to do with the endgame of the story is anyone’s guess. But something tells me they will all have big rolls next season (especially since Tyrion, Arya, and Bran didn’t really do anything this season which was slightly disappointing to me). We’ll see.

Magical creatures. More specifically direwolves and dragons.  Now yes, I mentioned the two when talking about ice and fire but the direwolves and dragons are so integral to the story, I felt they needed their own bullet point. Though very different types of creatures, the direwolves and dragons are incredibly similar in that they are 1) highly intelligent animals - some say smarter than many humans 2) aren’t typically meant to be kept as “pets”; they’re more wild animals than anything but 3) when they do form bonds with humans, they form very strong bonds, bonds that go beyond rational explanation and delve into magic again. Direwolves, we know, are warg-able (is that a word?). Some of the Stark children in the books can warg into the wolves - Arya, Bran, and Jon - even if in the show it is only Bran. Dragons may be wargable - the three-eyed-raven told Bran he would fly, but we don’t know this for sure. He’s warged ravens which technically counts as flying so we’ll see if dragons can be warged as well. The direwolves and dragons are able to sense when their bonded human is in trouble - specifically Dany in Meereen, Bran with the cutthroat, many other instances. Both are the sigils of incredibly prominent houses - Stark and Targaryen. And for fuckssake, we seriously need to see Ghost in season 8. So here’s to hoping for more magical creatures and possibly some dragon/wolf interactions coming up.

That’s all for now. If anymore ideas come to me, I’ll post them. Let me know your theories as well! It’s a long time until season 8 and I can’t stand it! 

[scuttleboat]

Do you ship jonerys? The incest thing doesn't bother me too much tbh, but they seem so boring and predictable as a couple. It felt inevitable that they were gonna hook up, but it doesn't feel like they'd ever last. They're too different imo. And the love scene didn't really help their case. It lasted all of 15 seconds (vs missandei/greyworm's long ass scene) and had shitty lighting. And Jon's intentions seem v unclear tbh. He's acting dodgy and reserved, vs dany who's kind of opened up to him.

I’m kinda… ‘eh?’ on Jon shipping? In concept, I like both jonerys and jonsa. Tbh I know more jonsa shippers so my inclination might be slightly that direction…I think in terms of relationship styles, that appeals to me more in this story. But I haven’t read fic for either pairing. I’ve reblogged gifsets for both I think.

For me, GoT isn’t one of my shipping fandoms. I broadly like or have opinions on different pairings, but it’s not a /fandom/ fandom for me. Meaning I’m not inclined towards an OTP or towards fanfic. I think I read maybe 3 Arya/Gendry fics in the last 6 years. But I still get into screen pairings as a viewer. I like watching Sansa/Jon and Sansa/Tyrion. I like Jaime/Cersei and Jaime/Brienne. I really want Arya and Gendry to reunite. I liked Shae and Tyrion before they ruined it with shitty writing. Jon and Daenerys are two gorgeous people and I started this season being pumped to see them together, to see if it sparked my interest.

Answer: still ‘ehh’. I think it started off being written in a way that I had trouble connecting with, which I admit disappointed me. I feel like the version we got for the start of s7 was the most… uninteresting version of this pairing. It’s literally just them standing beside each other and that’s it. With some actor pairings, that’s all you need (Joel McHale and Allison Brie for example.) With Jon and Dany, we needed a bit more. I just needed SOMETHING extra to make it come alive. What if they’d met as children somehow? What if they’d been writing letters for the last two seasons planning an alliance? What if they’d met on the battlefield? What if he’d saved her life during their first conversation? I JUST NEED SOMETHING MORE.

That being said, I did like it more the second half. I thought the scene in the boat where he committed to her was wonderfully performed, and I totally bought it. I also think their sex scene was hot, and well placed in the episode. Moon of the north, wowsa. The actors have chemistry when they’re given the right material; I think it’s only that early in the season that material wasn’t interesting enough.

Right now, I kind of want them to be happy together because I like both characters and I would enjoy it if they triumphed together in the face of a cruel and caustic world. I think they’re both good people who try their best to protect others, and it makes sense to me that they’d be attracted to someone who embodies similar hopes and values. And they’re hot.

So… I guess in the show, I do ship them. They’re happening, anyway, and I’d rather they find happiness and peace and partnership than not find it. I’ll probably reblog stuff. But they’re not my one true pairing.

I don’t know about him being suspicious, I think Dany just seems more open because she’s actually a more open and emotional character than he is. Jon is a brooding taciturn bore sometimes. He’s very much a stoic archetype, albeit he’s been getting better since he died.

(Note: this also runs into the issue where I spent most of the books and show being indifferent to Jon and finding his story the most frustrating and boring on the show. When he died in the books I was so happy to be done with the fucking wall. Since the show brought him back I *have* been enjoying him a lot more. Probably because he’s seeing new people and doing new things, finally. And I’m broadly invested in all the characters, cuz I’m a fan. But you’ll never find me raising my voice about what female character can love Jon better. I, like, don’t care. The show doesn’t care. Jon doesn’t even care.))

Dany… I think she’d be fine without him, but I also think she’s lonely and craves love, that just seems like part of her character. So finding a decent man who is a) close to her political level, b) has integrity, c) that she’s attracted to, and d.) will stand up for her and keep his promises… Dany’s gonna be into that. Tho I think she’d also benefit from having a female lover, especially if that takes the pressure off her to keep romance and politics separate.

[shewholovestoread]

Game of Thrones Season 7 - Starkbowl

Greetings anxious fans (moreso if you’re a Sansa fan) things seem to be heating up in anticipation for the final episode of season 7 and episode 6 was nothing if not a real clusterfuck which made little sense and further destroyed characters we’ve fallen in love with.

Let’s start with Arya. Arya is a veritable badass and has been through her own fair share of torture and trauma. But her sheer level of antipathy towards Sansa is out of character. Now, there are some fans who are saying that well, they never liked each other, you only have to watch season 1 to figure this out. But they were both CHILDREN! They’ve both grown and their entire world has been upended. If that doesn’t get you to change and change your outlook, then there’s something wrong with you. They’ve both gone through horrible things but over the last few seasons, their outlook towards each other changed, where Sansa grew to fondly remember Arya and not complain about Arya’s sense of dressing, similarly, even Arya holds a somewhat more sympathetic view of Sansa, saying that she would like to see her sister as well. Arya is the character who killed Walder Frey in his home surrounded by his men and that was after she killed and cooked his sons into a pie. You can’t do that unless you’re stealthy as fuck, to the extent that no one sees you coming. But at Winterfell, she feels sloppy. I still think that she’s being way too obvious, lurking in the corridors. She’s smarter than this. Plus, I think the Starks have a real problem with communicating with each other and they seriously need to work on that, but that’s a post for another day.

Now, moving on to the whole "Sansa will betray her home and her family”. To this too, I say, where is the proof? There is none. The Northern Lords preferring her over Jon is fickle and Sansa says as much, she doesn’t lay much importance in their allegiance because it changes as the winds do. The other reason I think it’s a red herring is just because of just how plugged it is.

Literally every interview with D&D and the main cast points to Starkbowl and Sansa’s betrayal. They’ve brought it up in every interview and played it up. Now, if this were legitimate, why plug it so hard, where’s the excitement and the shock that GoT loves to spring on its fans? It’s absurd. Let me illustrate with an example, you make a murder mystery but throughout the marketing, you start giving away the culprit and the motive for the murder. Why would you do that? But here’s an alternative theory, what if you want to misdirect the audience? How would you that? Well, in the same fashion as the GoT makers, you lay a false trail, you get the actors to go along with you. You get them to say some really stupid stuff and keep on laying the red herrings. If Sansa was really going to betray her family, I bet everyone would have been saying that she’s a true daughter of the North and that she loves her family, that way, when the betrayal did come, it would catch us completely by surprise.

Game of Thrones is hugely popular and the people behind the show knows this. Before every season, we are met with leaks ranging from set-photos to the actual plot. Now the first few times it happened, it may have been legitimate but you can’t tell me that the writers and the producers are going to let the leaks keep happening. GoT is a very expensive show and is a huge cash-cow for HBO, you mean to tell me that they’re just going to sit back and not put a cap on the leaks? I think they did just that with season 7. They knew that the leaks have played a huge part in ramping up the interest for the upcoming season, so the leaks were controlled. They told us what a lot of the marketing machinery was telling us, making us even more apprehensive. Think about it, the leaks told us nothing new, a lot of “what was revealed” were things that a lot of us had seen coming and therefore were not surprised. I’m not saying that all the leaks were false, they can’t be, not if they’re meant to be effective. There’s some truth mixed in with a lot of horse-shit. There were instances where we had the bullet points but no context and context is everything. But I digress.

The reason I think Starkbowl is false is because of how hard the marketing pushed it, you simply don’t start giving out integral plot points and Sansa’s betrayal should have been that. Unless, she’s truly committed to protecting her family and the North. Well, then the fans get complacent, they know they can trust this character, that she’s good. That doesn’t make for very interesting television ( at least in producers’ and writers’ minds) So if Sansa is indeed fighting for the Starks and the North, how do you create discord to keep the fans on their toes? By creating it. By putting LF by her side and reuniting her with her family but making their reunion one that is fraught with suspicion and thinly veiled threats. But I’m not convinced and perhaps I am giving too much credit to the makers of the show. Also, where is Bran in all of this? You can’t mean to tell me that he’s not involved in someway or another. He’s the Three-Eyed Raven, he sees the past, the present and the future. He’s seen the web that LF weaves and the way he plays people against each other. Just because we haven’t seen him interact with Sansa and Arya doesn’t mean it’s not happening off camera. What’s even more obvious is that Sansa knows this too as does Arya, though she didn’t spend as much time around him as Sansa did. You mean to tell me that you set-up a Stark reunion after Winterfell is back in Stark hands only for the House to implode? The Starks are the good guys in the GoT universe and this is their time. They’ve taken their home back and are slowly but surely making their enemies pay. The Freys and the Boltons are gone, LF is next on the agenda, he just doesn’t know it yet.

[cover2covermom]

*Books included in this batch of mini book reviews: A Game of Thrones (A Song of Fire and Ice #1) by George R.R. Martin,  After I Do by Taylor Jenkins Reid, The Library Book by Susan Orlean, and Gratitude Daily: 21 Days to More Joy and Less Stress by Nataly Kogan

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» A Game of Thrones (A Song of Fire and Ice #1) by George R.R. Martin

I’ve been wanting to start reading this series for a long, long time.  Not going to lie, I put it off for YEARS because I was super intimidated by the length of these books.  Plus, it is an unfinished series, so I was planning on waiting until it was finished before jumping in.  When I decided to participate in a GoT inspired read-a-thon in July, I figured it was the perfect excuse to pick up the first book in this series.

 Game of Thrones is full of action, adventure, humor, political intrigue, plot twists, and lots of death.  George R.R. Martin really enjoys dropping all kinds of bombs on his readers for a high shock factor.   I found myself mouthing “WTF?” numerous times throughout this story… probably more than any other book I’ve read.  If you are not a fan of surprises (not necessarily the good kind) and a high death count in your books, let me stress to you that this is not going to be the book for you.  No character is safe from George R.R. Martin and nothing is off limits.

When you have multiple POV switches among a long list of characters, I often find that one or more of the perspectives is not needed or not as engaging as others.  This was not the case here.  Of course I was more drawn to certain characters – Jon Snow, Tyrion, and Arya in particular – but felt that each perspective was equally compelling and enhanced the overall story-line.   

George R.R. Martin not only gives us lovable characters that we can’t help but root for, but he also gives us characters we love to hate.  I don’t think I’ve ever felt more satisfaction from a character death than I did in this book.   Furthermore, each of the characters were well fleshed out, including the secondary characters.  Even though we do not see the perspectives of some of the secondary characters, we are given a clear understanding behind their actions and motivations.

I was surprised how easy it was to follow this story despite the complexity of the plot, POV switches, and the overabundance of characters.  I attribute this to the writing not being overly dense and that the story was paced very well.

I was completely engrossed in this book from start to finish.  I cannot wait to read the rest of the books in this series!

***Trigger/content warning: ALL the warnings…graphic violence, rape, incest, abuse…***

» After I Do by Taylor Jenkins Reid

After I Do was my third Taylor Jenkins Reid novel.  After reading The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and Daisy Jones and the Six, I knew I wanted to read more of Reid’s books.  Whereas Evelyn Hugo & Daisy Jones are more gritty reads with complex (and unlikable at times) female leads, After I Do focuses on relationships & marriage.   Did I love this one as much as Evelyn Hugo or Daisy Jones?  No, but After I do has a very different feel to it…

After I Do is about Lauren & Ryan, a couple that fear they have fallen out of love with each other.  In an effort to save their marriage and avoid divorce, they decide to take a year apart.  We follow Lauren as she struggles to figure out what her life looks like without Ryan…

As you can probably guess from the book description, After I do is a character driven novel.  I would consider this story to be a “quiet” type of read.  We slowly watch the rise and fall of Lauren & Ryan’s marriage, followed by the devastation after Ryan moves out, and finally the rebuilding stage as Lauren picks up the pieces of her broken heart.  This is not an action packed plot, but rather Lauren’s reflection of her relationship with Ryan over the years & her grief over their decision to take a year break.  While After I Do centers around relationships/marriage, I would also label it as a journey to self discovery.  I really enjoyed watching Lauren’s growth and development over the course of this book.

After I Do is, above all, an incredibly relatable novel if you’ve been in a long term relationship and/or married.  As someone who has been with their spouse for 15 years, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t relate to Lauren & Ryan’s relationship struggles.  Relationships are hard & require effort from both parties, especially as time goes on and things start to feel stale.

I couldn’t help but wonder if this book would have worked better as a dual perspective of both Lauren and Ryan.  While we do get to see snippets of Ryan through the emails, I would have enjoyed reading from her perspective and seeing how he spent his year away.

After I Do would make for an excellent book club selection.

» The Library Book by Susan Orlean

After seeing RAVE reviews for this, I decided to give it a go for myself to see what the hype was about.  When I learned it was about the 1986 fire at the LA public library, I was a less thrilled to read it.  While I am very interested in libraries, I am not very interested in true crime types of novels… or at least that I what I thought.

I knew absolutely nothing about the LA public library fire of 1986.   For one, it happened before I was born.  Secondly, I’ve never been to California, much less Los Angles.  The LA public library fire of 1986 was the largest library fire of U.S. history.  It burned for over 7 hours and reached temperatures of over 2,500°F.  Over 400,000 books were lost, and over 700,000 were damaged.   Even though I was not overly interested in reading about an arson when I started The Library Book, I was completely captivated by this portion of the story: the fire itself, the damage, the restoration efforts, and even learning about the number one suspect, Harry Peak, in great detail.  You can definitely tell that Orlean has a strong background in journalism.

At first, I was unsure of the way Orlean formatted this book.  The chapters alternate between sharing details of the fire of 1986, the history of the LA public library, and Orlean experiencing the library as it is today.   When I started, the book felt a little scattered, but by the end I could see that this was an effective way to weave all of these elements together & hold the readers attention.

I think what Susan Orlean did here that worked so well was not only to talk about the details surrounding the 1986 fire at the LA public library, but also chose to share the history of the LA public library system, and libraries in general.   I loved learning about the history behind the LAPL: the head librarians over the years, the design & building of the main branch, how the library & it’s services have changed and evolved over the years, etc.   I also loved the details about libraries today: the roles of librarians, the issues with homelessness, the shift from libraries solely housing books and becoming community centers, etc.  The Library Book is really an ode to libraries, and how they are such an important staple in a community.

I highly recommend this book to lovers books, libraries, and/or crime fiction.

» Gratitude Daily: 21 Days to More Joy and Less Stress by Nataly Kogan

I would definitely consider myself to be a “glass half empty” type of person, so practicing gratitude is something I need to improve on.  I came across this short audiobook (just shy of 3 hours) on Hoopla, and decided to listen to it as a reading “palate cleanser” after reading some longer & heavier books.

Gratitude Daily is broken up into 21 daily lessons on how you can integrate gratitude in your day-to-day life.  The author’s intent was for the reader to listen to one lesson each day over the course of 21 days.  I chose to listen to the book straight through, and feel that either way you decide to read it would be beneficial.

Listening to this book definitely gave me a fresh perspective on gratitude and the benefits of practicing gratitude.  I love how positive and vivacious the author came across via the audiobook.  You can definitely tell how passionate Kogan is about gratitude & how practicing gratitude daily can bring so much joy.  

I found the tips and techniques in practicing gratitude to be practical and very achievable.  Something as simple as taking a few moments every day to jot down a few things you are thankful for that day – a beautiful sunrise, praise from a co-worker, a delicious dinner, etc – can help you to appreciate the small things in life and bring you more joy.

Have you read any of these books?  If so, what did you think?

Comment below & let me know 🙂

Mini Book Reviews: September 2019 - Part 1 #BookReview #BookBlog #Bookworm #AmReading #BookBlogger #Review *Books included in this batch of mini book reviews: A Game of Thrones (A Song of Fire and Ice #1) by George R.R.

[lupinusalbus]

King Without a Crown - Jon Snow in the Final Season

This may be a slightly different reading of Jon and Dany’s relationship on Game of Thrones, but one that I think makes sense based upon perspectives that I’ve read and developed over the several months since the finale aired.  The finale was disappointing to a broad swathe of viewers, and for different reasons; many of the disappointments seemed to be focused on Jon and Dany’s relationship.  These two were arguably the central characters of the show and George RR Martin once told a director from GOT that the coming together of Jon and Dany was central to the point of it all.  For all we know, Martin may have modified his views since then, but the death of Daenerys at Jon’s hands was a climactic moment that had been building for years, and one which seemingly left Jon broken.

  The Origins of Their Liaison

The star-crossed Targaryens met in season seven of Game of Thrones when Jon Snow travels to Dragonstone in order to seek Dany’s help against the Night King and his army.  Jon as a character is driven by his inner moral compass, rather than by an interest in gaining power or external rewards.   He is a classic introvert and is motivated by an idealistic sense of good and evil and right and wrong; which leads him to become a “protector” not unlike his foster father Ned Stark.  Jon’s idealism, at least on the show, may predispose him to be somewhat blind to those characters who are more gray in their personal behavior.  Jon finds out the hard way that doing what is right according to his inner sense of honor does not always lead to a happy resolution.  Yet to not live by his personal code would mean the loss of the integrity which is most precious to him. 

I think that for the TV show (the books may be quite different) the central reason Jon falls for Dany is that he sees her as someone who is similar to himself in being motivated to protect others.  Although Dany is full of herself and her “destiny” in a way that Jon is not, we do see Tyrion telling Jon “she protects people from monsters, just as you do”.  We also see Missendei giving Jon a speech about being freed by Dany and about her being “the Queen we chose”.  Putting aside for now the question of Jon’s gullibility, this representation of Dany would be just the sort of thing that appeals to an idealist like Jon.  But the coup de grace happened when Dany flew in to rescue Jon and his party from the Whitewalkers, complete with a white coat.  I believe the white coat was shown in order to emphasize the better side of Dany that many people chose to see and believe in to their eventual detriment.  Jon was by no means the only person who was drawn in by this aspect of Dany’s persona.  Tyrion, Varys and Ser Davos were all Westerosi players who believed in Dany and spoke about the possibility of marrying her to Jon Snow in episode one of season eight.

In the beginning of Jon and Dany’s liaison, after Jon returns from the Wight hunt, both are shown to be giving up something which they value to the other.  Dany, overcome by Jon’s brush with death, and having seen his previous wounds, tells him that she will fight the Walkers with him without the earlier  precondition that he kneel to her.  Jon, also seemingly overcome by the moment, bends the knee and gives up his crown.  Dany is taken aback by this turn of events, and then cries when Jon says that the Northerners will “see her for what she is.”

This line, which is ominous given what eventually transpires, marks the turning point in how Jon sees Dany - someone who is like himself in the desire to protect others.  For Dany, entering into a relationship with Jon Snow is an advancement over her prior liaisons.  Although she loved Khal Drogo, he reflected and fed Dany’s dark side in many ways.  Although Dany liked Darrio Naharis, their relationship was mostly transactional and she easily left him behind.  In Jon’s case, we see that Dany has seriously fallen for someone who reflects her better self.  This is likely the reason she loves him, and their relationship is a mirror for her inner struggle.  Unfortunately, it’s a struggle that she will lose, as her dark side will win out in the end.

Jon Bending the Knee - A Poor Decision

The show depicts Jon as having a choice about whether to bend the knee to Dany, even though he later implies to the Northern Lords that he didn’t really have one at all if he wanted to save Westeros from the Night King.  As was recounted above, Dany made the offer to fight with Jon without her previous condition that he bend the knee first.  Jon’s sudden capitulation to Dany in season seven, after spending quite some time refusing her, marks the beginning of his decline as an heroic character, and may have actually contributed to Dany’s downfall.  Had Jon thought through his decision more carefully (as Sansa advised), he may have realized that submitting himself and the North to Dany was not necessarily in her best interest.  He may have been able to shield her from some of the hostility and suspicion with which she was greeted had he presented her as an ally and equal rather than his Queen.  The TV show depicts Dany’s downfall as being almost entirely psychological in origin; mostly stemming from Northerners “loving” Jon/Aegon more and also Jon’s  own ambivalence about their  sexual relationship.   Whether her deterioration had anything to do with the Targaryen madness is not answered definitively; instead the audience is left contemplating the possibility that Jon could have done something to mollify her before it was too late.  

Some viewers saw Jon’s bending the knee as a betrayal of the North and the Starks after they entrusted him with the title of King in the North.  We see in the first episode of season eight that Jon has already lost some support in the North when Sansa reads him a scroll from Lord Glover.  Sansa and Arya, however (and perhaps inexplicably), don’t appear to to overtly think of Jon’s relinquishment as a betrayal so much as an unwise decision that they must at least temporarily accept.  After the Night King is defeated and Jon prepares to march South, they tell him that they don’t trust Dany, but to no avail.

There’s no doubt that the nuances of Jon’s relationship with Dany at this crucial juncture are not well depicted.  Although many fans of the show were thrilled to see these two characters fall for each other, others were shocked that Jon gave up his crown when he didn’t have to.  His decision seemed ill-fated and unwise in the same way Robb’s decision to break his promise to to Walder Frey did in an earlier season.  Both decisions by the Kings in the North had catastrophic consequences and made the North as a power appear to be weak and fickle.  One can only assume this is deliberate on the part of Martin.  Only Sansa appears steadfast in her devotion to the cause of Northern Independence as she is left to try and clean up Jon’s mistakes.   Unfortunately, we don’t get to see Jon’s answer When Sansa asks him why he bent the knee, but the explanations of Jon’s that we do witness are centered around the necessity of  having Dany’s armies and dragons.

Dany herself, up until she learns about Jon’s true identity, seems to believe that she came North primarily out of love for Jon.  She says as much to Sansa, even though the loss of Viserion must also have factored into her decision.  In return, Jon’s having pledged himself to her assures that he will stand with her against Cersei.

Who Manipulated Whom?

This is the question Dany asks Sansa during their only conversation about Jon. Here Dany is trying to cast  herself in the best possible light by implying that she acted selflessly in order to help Jon and the North.  Sansa is skeptical of Dany and Jon’s relationship for more than one reason.  Of central concern is the past treatment of the Starks by the Mad King, which can’t easily be set aside by Northerners.  But what seems most disturbing to Sansa is that Jon has knelt.  Back in season six Sansa and Jon listened as Lord Glover harangued them about Robb’s costly decision to marry for love.  Sansa is now afraid that Jon has made a similar rash decision by bending the knee and thereby subjugating the North to a Targaryen.  

In what way does Sansa suspect Jon is being manipulated?

Obviously, she suspects that Jon has been seduced.  She says as much when she remarks to Jon that Dany is much prettier than her father.  Sansa would naturally suspect that Dany was using Jon in order to gain the North, but would also be thinking about how Robb’s passion for Talisa had disastrous consequences.  The audience doesn’t get to see very much of Jon’s reasoning process about why Dany would be “good”.  Most of his rejoinders to others are simply about reassuring them of her “goodness.”   This is about all that Sansa has to go on, so she is left to think that Jon, like Robb is being ruled by sexual passion.

Jon’s other argument about Dany is that her Dragons and forces are essential for the battle against the Night King.  This reason is much more fact-based, and therefore appears to be accepted as true by the Starks and others.  What is more difficult for Sansa and Arya to accept is that the North will again be subjugated and that Jon threw his crown away for love.

All in all, the idea that either Jon or Dany was manipulating the other doesn’t seem to hold much water.  Dany’s remark to Sansa was probably an attempt to turn the tables on her and get the upper hand.  While Jon definitely wanted Dany to fight with him; the beginning of their liaison looked to be voluntary on both sides, with Jon willingly giving up his crown and Dany pledging to fight before he even did so. 

Jon and Dany’s Relationship Turns Toxic

The turning point in their relationship comes early in season eight once Jon learns that he is a Targaryen.  For good measure, Samwell Tarley drives home the point that Jon is the “True King”.  We, the audience really didn’t get to see Jon’s identity crisis, only his attempt to unify the Starks and the Targaryens by asserting to Dany that “we can live together”.  Jon’s hope that this might actually have happened is another example of his idealism; whereas Dany correctly  predicted what Sansa would do with the explosive information about Jon’s true identity.

The abbreviated number of episodes in season eight and the emphasis on spectacle left many questions unanswered. But after the Battle for Winterfell and Jon’s disclosure to Dany, the series focuses on the disintegration of their relationship.  From their prospective sides, Dany is concerned about Jon now being a rival for the throne, and Jon is disturbed by the incestuous nature of their liaison.  Jon’s reaction and feelings about incest are largely glossed over on the show, and Jon’s sisters seem to be strangely unconcerned about it.  But  deleted lines from The Bells indicate that Dany senses Jon feels “disgusted.”

Dany’s feelings of jealousy about Jon’s hero status in the North (compared to her chilly reception there), and Jon’s doubts about the appropriateness of their relationship is the subtext for the scene in episode five (The Last of the Starks), which shows Jon groveling in order to convince Dany that he doesn’t want the crown.  This scene is disturbing on many levels and seems to reveal the faulty foundation of their “love.”  Dany is entirely unconcerned about what Jon is going through and begs him to keep his identity secret.  In spite of his misgivings about their sexual relationship, Jon’s instinct is to think that his two “families” can live together.  Given Sansa and Dany’s dislike for one another, this seems very naive on his part and makes one wonder whether the entire basis for Jon’s capitulation to Dany is naivete.  But to be fair, Jon is not the only one who has been taken in.

No doubt this is one of the deeper themes intended for Game of Thrones - the possible catastrophic consequences of being swept up in a political movement with a charismatic leader.  

The Meaning of Jon’s Ending in Season Eight

For many viewers, the central mystery about Jon in season eight is the disconcerting nature and therefore ambiguous meaning of his ending.  He does not get fulfillment in love, does not become a hero (at least in the conventional sense), does not become King, and is separated from the family that he saved.  His ideals are shattered once again as he learns that the woman in whom he placed his faith and loyalty was proven to be deeply unworthy and a threat to the entire world.  He appears to be riding into obscurity in the conclusion, perhaps never to be heard from again.

Whether this ending is meant to represent a triumph of the Old Gods in a way that Jon does not understand (making him a pawn of larger forces), or just a subversion of his (and viewer’s) ideals, it is impossible to not think Jon has been left broken and disillusioned once again.  He does, however, pick up Longclaw and ride North with what is left of a people that he protected and who idolize him.  This, of course, suggests that he has found a reason to go forward.  His future stature in Westeros is likely to be legendary because of his past feats, his resurrection, and by virtue of his having killed the Dragon Queen. He is a King without a crown who will no doubt continue to capture the popular imagination and whose legend will only grow going forward.

Jon Snow - If there was a Season Nine his Legend would only Grow ( Photo HBO)

[lupinusalbus]

Season 8 Plot:  Jon and Dany are Tainted; Sansa Rises (Part 1)

There was so much wrong with seasons seven and eight of Game of Thrones, especially with the portrayals of most of the major characters. Many of the show characters are quite different in some aspects from what they are in the books, but we know that many of the end points will be very similar. We also know that Martin likes to subvert expectations about “heroes”.  This may mean both Jon and Dany are slated to be sullied as characters in TWOW, not just Dany alone. What follows is my theory of why the writing in season 8 went down the way it did.  It doesn’t mean I believe the writing and characterizations were actually good.  In part 2, I will get more specific about what I think the writers were actually trying to accomplish, muddled as it was.  If we look at the skeleton outline of what happened towards the end of the series, however, it looks something like this:

Jon is disillusioned, but his reunion with Sansa inspires him to take up the Stark’s seemingly hopeless cause

Dany arrives at Dragonstone and plans her conquest

Jon and Sansa take back Winterfell, their relationship deepens

Jon’s personal renewal upon being named King in the North causes him to continue his mission to act against the Night King.  This leads him to his fateful meeting with Daenerys Targaryen.

Dany falls in love with Jon and agrees to fight in the North after losing a Dragon trying to rescue him.    Jon kneels to Dany; they go North with her armies. Meanwhile, the Night King breaks through the Wall with Viserion.

Jon learns about his true heritage.  In the meantime, Dany has received a chilly reception from the Starks, especially Sansa who wants to continue with Northern Independence. 

The Night King is defeated; killed by Arya Stark.  Heavy losses are suffered by Dany’s armies and the Northern forces.  Dany is disturbed by the implications of  Jon’s lineage when she sees how much the Northerners love him.  Their sexual relationship becomes troubled as Jon experiences qualms about it. She asks Jon to keep his true parentage a secret.

Jon tells the Starks who he really is.  Sansa tells Tyrion, who tells Varys.  Meanwhile, Dany and Jon head South separately to fight Cersei.

Dany loses Rhaegal. Missendai is executed by Cersei; Dany becomes more paranoid and isolated.

Varys plots to overthrow Dany in favor of Jon Snow.  He is discovered and burned alive.  Jon reaffirms his political fealty to Dany but again rejects her advances and she concludes that she must rule by fear in Westeros.  Dany knows that Sansa has plotted against her.

Dany and Jon move to attack King’s Landing.  Tyrion frees Jaimie who was captured by Dany’s forces while sneaking into King’s Landing.

Rather than accept the surrender of Cersei’s forces, Dany goes “mad” and burns King’s Landing and much of the populace to cinders.  Her forces and the Northern forces commit atrocities.  Jaimie and Cersei die; Jon Snow is horrified by what Dany has wreaked.

At her victory rally at the Red Keep, Dany announces her plans to liberate the world.  Tyrion throws his Hand’s badge down the steps in a dramatic display and Dany has him arrested.  Tyrion convinces Jon that he must act against Dany before it’s too late.

Jon kills Dany as they kiss in front of the Iron Throne and Drogon absconds with her body. Jon is arrested off camera.

Bran is named King; Tyrion is his hand.  Sansa secures the North’s continuing independence.  Jon is sentenced to go back to The Wall in an apparent compromise between Gray Worm and the Starks.

Arya sails off to explore unknown territory under the Stark Banner, Sansa is named Queen in the North, Jon sets out beyond The Wall to resettle the Wildlings.  It’s unclear when or whether he plans to return.

(More Below the Cut)

The biggest story arc in the final two seasons is that of Dany and Jon’s political/personal alliance and subsequent military actions. Almost all of the other stories play out against this backdrop.  If we could encapsulate Dany’s story in a nutshell, it could be divided into her life before and after she met Jon Snow.  Soon after she met him, she decided to decimate much of the Lannister army in the Loot Train attack, which gave her an advantage against Cersei.  Dany was weakened by going North with Jon and fighting against the Night King, both militarily and personally.  It can be argued that her relationship with Jon Snow brought about her downfall. We don’t know whether Jon and the Starks could have defeated the Night King without Dany, however it looks like this is at least a possibility because of the way the story played out.  The Stark’s plan essentially outwitted the Night King by using Bran as bait, and when he went down, the entire AOTD went down with him.  Had it played out a bit differently, it’s conceivable that it could have been done without Dany.  At any rate, Dany’s journey to the North eventually weakened her in more ways than one.

Dany and Jon at the Battle for Winterfell (HBO)

Dany’s Love for Jon Snow - a Fateful Event

As I wrote previously, Dany’s relationship with Jon was very different from her previous two.  In her marriage to Drogo, Dany began as the weaker partner who  was basically treated like a piece of property; however improbably, they did grow to love each other. Gradually, she gained power to the point where Drogo ended up dying because Dany demanded that he stop some rapes that were occurring after a raid.  In her relationship with Daario Naharis, Dany was the dominant partner.  She easily left him behind when she sailed for Westeros.

After Jon arrives at Dragonstone to seek Dany’s help against the Night King, Dany becomes infatuated with him.   Jon’s personal integrity, conscientiousness and restraint represent  an advancement for Dany compared to her past relationships.  However, these very qualities of Jon’s are also what will seal her doom.  

We don’t get to see very much of Jon and Dany’s relationship before she finds out that he is a Targaryen and technically her rival for the throne.  However, Jon has bent the knee to Dany, and as such he is obligated to be deferential.  When Jon learns of the true circumstances of his birth from Samwell Tarly, he immediately reacts to Sam’s suggestion that Dany should not be Queen by calling it treason.  During the Battle for Winterfell, the two seem to work in tandem although Jon prioritizes Bran’s safety over Dany’s.  This happens immediately after Jon tells Dany about his birth, and after the battle it causes a rift to develop in their relationship.

In the scene after the celebratory feast at Winterfell, Dany tells Jon that she loves him.  Jon is ultimately unable to make love to her which leads Dany to have a melt down over his parentage.  Jon swears that he doesn’t want the throne and will be loyal.  But he then takes exception to Dany’s demand that he keep his secret from Sansa and Arya.  Although Jon continues his political loyalty to Dany, their emotional attachment is now deeply disturbed.

There is no doubt, however, that Dany wishes to continue their relationship.  In the scene of the two together at Dragonstone, she tries to heal their rift, and he again rejects her advances.  And just before her death, Dany envisions them working side by side together as Targaryens; probably in a marriage as has been their custom.  Although we can argue about what love means to a flawed character like Dany, there is no doubt that her feelings for Jon Snow continued until the end.

This scene at Dragonstone between Dany and Jon is pivotal and provides an important glimpse into Dany’s dark side.  We don’t see whether Jon was summoned or if he just showed up to talk to Dany; but we do get to see her reaction to being thwarted.  Jon’s qualms about continuing their physical relationship (read as rejection by Dany) is seemingly projected onto Westeros at large by Dany with the implication being that the lack of love being shown her is what causes her to unleash her fury.

Jon’s Faustian Bargain

The impending invasion of the Night King placed Jon in a difficult situation with regard to his relationship with Dany, since persuading her to help him was paramount.  As King in the North, his commitment was to protect his people and the Starks.  He keenly feels the weight of his responsibilities, just as he did when he was Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch.  His instinct is usually to try and unite rather than divide and also to first look to people’s best qualities rather than antagonize them.  This is why many in the Night’s Watch felt him to be a natural leader.  Those who would take different tacks, such as Alesair Thorne would always be a problem or  threat to people such as Jon who are more visionary in nature.  

In spite of his prowess and bravery in conflicts and on the battlefield, Jon does not enjoy these pursuits. His natural inclination is that of an idealistic protector who possesses a strong sense of right and wrong - an honorable man in the mold of his foster father, Ned Stark.  In spite of not being a “true” Stark, Jon has loved the Stark family and wished to defend and avenge them during the War of the Five Kings and the Battle of the Bastards.  In love relationships, Jon is cautious, but “loyal and true”, as Ygritte tells him.  His natural impulse is not to dominate or use women, like many of the men on Game of Thrones.  Jon sometimes shows a bit of chauvinism when interacting with his sisters, but we can’t expect him not to display these qualities from time to time in the world of the show.  All in all, he is an exceptional and admirable person with a good conscience, though not as shrewd as the book character.

One reason that Jon’s relationship with Dany becomes so problematic is their clashing world views.  Jon could not have helped but see this early on in their interactions because of Dany’s dictatorial and regal style.  Of course there was another side to Dany which she sometimes demonstrated with intimates, but Jon’s natural inclination is to be wary of people who behave arrogantly.  Although its difficult to determine exactly what the show’s writers were trying to do with Jon’s character during season 7, it’s safe to say that Jon was unlikely to have sought a romantic relationship with Dany, but instead was drawn into it because of her attraction to him.  From the outset, their  overall motives were not  compatible:  Dany’s was to conquer Westeros; Jon’s was to save it.  And while Dany’s slogan of breaking the wheel may have given her traction with enslaved peoples, in Westeros it tended to fall short.

Much of the drama of season 7 was about whether or not these two characters would get together, as allies and/or as lovers.  There are really only three possibilities for Jon’s inner feelings about his relationship with Dany, although we know Dany’s feelings for Jon.  The first is that Jon loves or at least admires her sincerely; the second is that he is manipulating her and feels no love (but does have sexual desire); and the third is that he is drawn into the relationship because of a combination of the dire circumstances they are facing and Dany’s obvious ardor for him.  The third possibility makes the most sense to me and does not completely preclude political motives on his part.

Jon’s relationship with Ygritte is something of a model for his later relationship with Dany.  Ygriite was the aggressor, and although she may have started down that path as a way of engineering her escape, her feelings for Jon soon became genuine.  In any case, Jon wasn’t the pursuer initially in that relationship, and Ygriite’s personality tended to overpower his.  Their relationship was messy because of external factors and Jon eventually had to “return to himself” by leaving Ygritte.  There is a similar dynamic at play in Jon’s relationship with Dany.   The possibility that Jon could be lead astray by a woman also seemed to be something that Sansa feared had happened upon Jon’s return to Winterfell with the Dragon Queen;  she had hinted as much to Jon early in season 7, before Dany had even come into the picture.

The show presents Jon as having given up his crown in order to gain Dany’s assistance.  This is how Jon explains and justifies what he did to the Northmen in an assembly and also to Sansa and Arya.  Jon giving up the crown seems to be the issue that upsets the Starks and others more than Dany’s mere presence  in the North with her forces.  Especially for Sansa, Northern independence should not have to be on the table anymore, but Jon has given it away without consulting her.  To Sansa, Jon has fallen under the spell of a usurper whom she doesn’t trust.  However, near the end of season 7 Dany had first offered to fight with Jon without his having bent the knee, which is what Jon purportedly had wanted all along.

The fact that he then bends the knee anyway suggests that he has in some sense become more sympathetic to Dany.  Perhaps he feels that he must give something up to her because she lost a dragon in her attempt to rescue Jon and the others.  Perhaps he really doesn’t value the crown; but if this is the case, why did he accept it, especially knowing how much it means to Sansa?  Jon most likely feels that he is playing it smart by putting aside his pride but also has some kind of feeling for Dany after her rescue attempt and offer to fight with him.  Like Ygritte, Dany is a warrior who physically puts herself on the line, and this is attractive to Jon.

In Jon’s eyes he is trading his crown (and Northern independence) for Dany’s support; but mixed into this bargain is an emotional bond.  The attraction seems stronger on Dany’s side, but Jon has allowed himself to be drawn in, and as Varys observes, to be overshadowed by Dany’s all-consuming quest. But  just as in his relationship with Ygritte, there is a side of Jon to which he must ultimately remain true - his loyalty to the North and his real family.

Was Sansa Right All Along?

At the beginning of Season 7,  Sansa advises Jon that he needs to be smart because Robb and Ned Stark had made stupid mistakes.  Sansa’s overall assessment seems to be that Ned and Robb were naive and had underestimated their enemies.  Sansa first gets this feeling about Jon around the time of the Battle of the Bastards.  She doesn’t approve of Jon’s decision to attack Ramsay’s army with the low number of men they have been able to muster.  She also correctly intuits that Jon will fall into a trap that Ramsay is likely to be preparing.  In the end, Sansa saves the day by having requested help from Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale, but it turned out that her misgivings about Jon were accurate.  

In season 8, Sansa’s misgivings about Dany are also eventually proven correct when Dany evolves into a destructive tyrant and burns King’s landing.  All along Sansa and Arya had expressed their distrust of Dany to Jon, but Jon does not really listen and goes on supporting Dany.  Jon claims more than once that the Starks just don’t know Dany well enough yet, implying that they’ll eventually come to like her, and he also expresses to Dany a belief that they all can live together.  Presumably he means they can all co-exist in Westeros.  

Sansa and Arya get nowhere with Jon when they try to talk to him before he leaves for Dragonstone.  At this point, Jon also tells them about his true identity as the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar.  It is soon after this that Sansa moves to protect Jon and the North by revealing his secret to Tyrion Lannister. 

From the perspective of how Game of Thrones ends up, the most prescient character all along was indeed Sansa.  Her insight into Jon’s tendencies began at the Battle of the Bastards and is foreshadowed by her comment to him about  needing to be smarter than Ned and Robb.  Sansa also remarks to Dany that men do stupid things for women, which can only be taken at face value by the audience.  Dany’s remark about “who is manipulating whom”, probably does not imply true canniness on the part of Jon but is actually a reference to Dany’s own infatuation with him combined with her desire to placate Sansa.

Jon had kept the interest of the North in mind by focusing on the threat of the Night King, while Sansa had all along remained motivated by continuing the Northern independence which Jon’s crowning had reinstated.  Her distrust of Dany was based upon several factors, but insight into Dany’s true propensities that later turned out to be correct was probably a major driver.  This is not really spelled out by the show; we are only given lines like Arya’s to Jon about Sansa being the “smartest person I know.”  This possibility seems to have pretty much escaped Jon, who is focused on the Night King and his sense of indebtedness to Dany.

Sansa and Jon (The Starks) bring about Dany’s Downfall

Jon’s character arc in season 8 appears to only confirm Sansa’s misgivings about him.  Here are a few actions by Jon which were likely perceived as alarming by Sansa:

He bent the knee, which we know Sansa disapproves of, not only because Dany is a Targaryen but because Sansa has become devoted to the cause of Northern independence.  Sansa wanted Jon to remain King in the North.

Sansa perceives Jon’s “love” for Dany (which he probably admitted to her in episode one) as a sign that he is again vulnerable to making poor judgements as she saw him do in the past and which remind her of other male Starks.

Jon’s repeated assurances that Dany will be a good queen despite evidence to the contrary.

Jon’s fealty to Dany even after learning of his parentage.  What did Sansa think of this?  We didn’t get to hear, but her spilling the beans to Tyrion tells us she believes it to be a mistake.  We have to believe that Sansa told Jon as much after Bran revealed the truth about him, and he wouldn’t listen.

What stands out about Sansa during all of this is that she trusted her own judgements over Jon’s and ultimately acted upon them in opposition to Jon’s instructions.  Since Sansa is correct about Dany, she is shown to have the best judgement and therefore lives up to her implied “smartness”.  Of course Jon’s character arc of naivete and blind devotion is deeply disappointing and antithetical to some of his past actions.  Yet Sansa’s misgivings about his judgement are seemingly proven true in the end.  Jon’s decision to kill Dany, which was portrayed as being more about protecting Sansa than about Dany’s fitness, was not reached until almost the last minute, and only after a discussion with Tyrion in which he seems to defend Dany.  Unfortunately this is what the show gave us, but in the end, the Starks are mostly on the ascent because of Sansa and Jon.  It is likely that Sansa telling Tyrion about Jon’s Targaryen heritage contributed to Dany’s burning of King’s Landing.  This is evidenced by her paranoia, self pity and instability in her scene with Jon after Varys’s execution.  Soon afterwards, Jon ended Dany’s life and the tipping point for him   was almost certainly his (late) realization that Dany would likely try to kill Sansa.

Part 2 will be about the plot the writers may have intended to portray.